Interview: Jimmy Gnecco
The sold-out crowd’s clothes in Lee’s Palace were definitely dry from the rain once OURS blazed through their fierce 40-minute set on May 10, 2013. The band came to Toronto as support for Peter Murphy. They played songs from their new album, Ballet The Boxer 1, which was just released a few days earlier on May 4, 2013 through PledgeMusic. OURS left the audience buzzing from their high energy performance, winning it over and causing Peter Murphy’s awe-struck fans to ask, “Who is this band? This guy’s got a voice on him!”
Front man and mastermind Jimmy Gnecco sat down with Music Vice writer, Laura Antonelli, to discuss their new album. They talked about the positives and negatives of using crowdfunding, the risky choice to follow inspiration and create something different, and how the band finally fought back and made the music that they wanted.
It’s your first time doing crowdfunding through PledgeMusic for this new album, Ballet The Boxer 1. Explain to me why you chose to do that instead of signing with a record label.
It just started to get more and more apparent to us that there’s a good chance we might never be happy being on a record label. The moment that you have to bring somebody else’s opinion into the music on a business side, those people sometimes don’t always understand the creative side. We dealt with it for as long as we could but it just became too painful for us.
That being said, the last record deal I had was a good one. There are bad contracts out there right now so many of them don’t sound attractive or appealing to us. The labels are not selling albums, so they’re figuring out ways to take every part of somebody’s income, and that doesn’t make sense to us. I did happen to have a favourable deal where they didn’t take a part of everything, though.
Years ago it was hard enough when you had musical people telling you what they thought you should do. We were unfortunately just dealing with people who didn’t know much about music or the music business. So being told what they thought we should do was not going to work at all for us anymore. It took a lot to accept that we were going to have to ask people for help because we’re not the kind of people to ask anybody for help. It’s just not for pride reasons, but it just seems a little self congratulatory to assume that people are going to want to help.
Were you nervous?
Well, what we tried to do rather than beg people for support was to offer things like private concerts, online performances, or basically just pre-ordering the record. So if people wanted them, then at least they’d know they’re there for them. We tried to maintain a certain level of class throughout the campaign and tried not to get too silly or greedy. Granted, there may be people out there with a lot of money who are looking to spend it, but we weren’t looking to be at all greedy. So we set our goal way lower than we should have made it because it does take money to get things done, especially on the level that we wanted.
We wanted to make the best album to date and it wasn’t going to be acceptable to us to just go into someone’s basement and record it on a computer. We still wanted to go into a real studio, record to tape, and make a better, real album. It’s always our goal to do better than we did the time before, so the bar was set high with Mercy. We wanted to be up in that same kind of place where we felt about it but Mercy was an $800,000 record, and we didn’t try to raise a fraction of that amount. So it created some challenges for us throughout the process of making it. We had to ask a lot of favours from people, but something also great came from it. The people who actually wanted to be there were there and that made this album feel special.
We’ve worked with great people in the past but we always had a lot of money for the projects, so we could hire them. It’s not to say the people that worked with us weren’t passionate, but this is a way of making sure that the people who care are the ones that are there, because there really wasn’t any money.
Does PledgeMusic take a portion of what you raise?
Yes, they do. There are a few of them: Pledge, Kickstarter, Indiegogo, and RocketHub. Everybody takes different percentages and has their own guidelines. The way that Pledge works is that they’ll take 15% and also suggest that you donate a percentage of it to charity. Just so you understand, this is what we’re up against, say you set your goal at $20,000 and you raise $19,000 but then the campaign is over. If you don’t hit your goal, all the money goes back to everybody who pledged. That’s also why we wanted to aim low because we just felt like we don’t want to not get something. Right now we’re going to have to get creative with finances as far as being able to actually promote and market the record, and also keep us on the road. We should’ve gone higher, but, like I said, we didn’t want to be greedy and we wanted to make sure we could at least make the album.
So did you find your experience with Pledge to be positive or negative?
It was a positive experience all and all because it’s a true 100% expression of what we wanted to do. Not filtered and diluted in any way. Just to explain what I mean, in the past, yes, I’ve written all the songs on the records and I’ve kind of made the music that I’ve wanted. When you write a song and you show it to the label, it’s a kiss and a curse. They get excited about it and that’s how you want them, but then their opinions start to come in, and that naturally alters the process.
When we’re making a record, we’re always trying to make one from beginning to end. We’re always trying to create something that feels like it takes you on a journey, not just a compilation of songs. I’ve always wanted to do that but I’ve always been interfered with it. Say we complete 12 songs and then somebody steps in and says, “Well, we think you should put this song second. We think you should put this song first.” We’ve already fought and fought to get to that point where we’re happy with the tunes, so even though they’re not altering them, there’s still another level of everybody saying where they think they should go. For me, sometimes a song on a record serves the purpose to get you from the third song to the fifth one. It’s not about it being a single or having to be anything but serve its purpose on the album. Now once somebody starts dictating where the songs should be placed – compromised. They’ve now completely compromised any sort of vision and it’s happened on each one of my records.
This time we were not going to let that happen, so in that sense that’s why it was incredibly rewarding. When it came down to sequencing, I just closed my eyes, listened, and went on the ride. I said, “What needs to happen next to tell the story of the entire album? Where do you want to go? You can’t get to this feeling without having gone through that feeling first.” You can’t just pick a highlight reel and put the songs that you think people are going to like the most. You have to listen to the record. I think we came closest to that on Distorted Lullabies and then again on this album. Not to say we don’t love Mercy, but the order of it was interfered with for me, and so right there it was compromised. Something about your love for the project changes once that compromise happens. You have to learn to accept it in a different way. This time it didn’t change for better or for worse. It feels like a record from beginning to end. It’s over before you know it and I like that about it.
Let’s discuss the length of the album. It’s 43 minutes, concise and straight to the point. I’m assuming you did that on purpose?
Yes, we can definitely be long winded. It was a conscious decision to make this record in this way because I just did a solo album with 15 tunes that were lengthy, drawn out, sad songs. We just needed to refocus. We wanted this piece of work to say something concise and powerful without having to say too much. We wanted to get everybody ready for what’s coming because we have some deep, heavy songs on the way, but we just felt like it wasn’t the time to do that yet. We just basically wanted to not make people work too hard.
You just said you want to prepare people for what’s coming, so let’s get into the title and the theme of the album. It’s calledBallet The Boxer 1. When I saw the one I automatically assumed round one, so I think there’ll be another record called Ballet The Boxer 2. I was shocked when I first heard the album, but then I realized that the title perfectly matches it musically and lyrically. So tell me about the significance of the one and your take on the title.
I guess for me what I meant was kind of looking at a divided country, all the fighting going on in the world, everybody struggling to survive. It creates desperation, fear, and hopelessness in people. That fear at times turns us into fighters. Rather than fighting with one another, the idea is to fight for a better way to exist that’s not about fighting.
There’s a strong struggle within the record even for myself going through it. I needed to come out on the other side of what was happening to complete this album. I came into it depressed and frustrated. Something happens from getting beat down, picked on, and beaten up. It eventually either wins or you stand up and fight back. During that time, I was just swinging because I had to fight back whatever that was winning. That fight then ultimately ends up being with yourself, and figuring out better ways to deal with all these things that come your way and are in front of you. I think it’s a good thing because, for the first time in years, it’s brought excitement out of the songs. But there’s a lot of – it’s not just anger, I was on fire. The fire was definitely burning below. Like I said, I wanted to just swing.
There’s then another part of me that understands from past experience that that’s not the way either, so a better solution had to be found. I did find resolve and that’s the way I was able to musically and lyrically finish the album. I couldn’t complete it while I didn’t have that because I would’ve left everybody in an unresolved place where we could have potentially fueled anger rather than transcend it. So as we got into the record, so many songs came up that fit together in the theme of this struggle. I started to realize that’s there’s so much more to be said about it. There’s still a lot more to be dug out even though I needed to find some closure to at least finish this first part of it.
There will be other parts to it then?
[Long pause] I think there has to be.
You’re hesitating. So continuing with Ballet The Boxer or just other albums?
I think there’s more to be said here. There’s still so much discovery going on all these years later. So there’s more to be found out, brought to the light, and celebrated as well.
Will a song like “Autumn” be on it? I noticed it right away missing from the track listing but it doesn’t fit into this album at all.
That’s a tricky thing. “Autumn” is a song that we’re proud of and just feel like it’s nothing we’ve ever heard before. It’s important to me to do something new and to take people to places that maybe they haven’t previously gone. “Autumn” does that, but, like you said, it does not fit with these songs, so it will be released from its bondage soon.
So you’re going to release it soon then?
Possibly in this next group of songs, we’ll relook at it.
You don’t still have money from this Pledge campaign, so you have to do a whole new one then?
We don’t even have money to finish this campaign [laughs]. Like I said, we didn’t shoot for much so there are still some things we’re trying to figure out. We have a record done and that’s what I promised everybody. It was literally the moment it was finished. We walked out of the recording studio, mastered it, and immediately uploaded it the next morning for everyone. We didn’t spend time like we normally do, months or years going back and saying things can be better. It was an accelerated process. I think all together we spent about 25 days in the recording studio.
It’s obvious the production of this album is different than your other ones. It just has a raw, live sound to it. Was that done on purpose?
That was definitely done on purpose. I played drums on the whole record except for the last song, “Fall into My Hands.” I’ve played drums in the past that we didn’t make a big deal about, but this time it was important for it to be right. I think it yielded something wild for us to tell you the truth. It’s a sound I’ve been chasing down for a long time in my head and I finally allowed that to happen.
We wanted to do a couple things differently than Mercy. We’d have around 20/30 guitar tracks to pick from for that album. Sometimes with all the different microphones and parts, we were using 15/16 guitar tracks at once. We just wanted to mainstream this record, not mainstream pop, but just streamline what it is we’re trying to do. We wanted one strong, defined guitar part as opposed to what we did on both Distorted Lullabies and Mercy which was to take multiple parts to make a sound. If you’re a guitarist or a drummer trying to learn one of those songs, you don’t even know what part to play. We wanted the intent to be different and clear with this record that it’s inspired by Michael Jackson or other Motown albums. You’re not wondering what’s making it sound this way by having all these different layers. There are still layers on this record, though.
You just have to listen closely for them.
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s because I played the drums, but I mixed them loud and mixed my voice low. I think it’s because we always wanted a record to sound that way. It’s always tricky because everybody has a different view on what they see as being right. Some people want to hear the band more and other people want to hear my voice the most. I thought on Mercy my voice was mixed really loud, so I wanted to make sure that when you turned this record up, everything came up. I didn’t let it get to the point where my voice was too loud before you felt what the drums were doing. So because of that you have to mix the voice down a little and in the band. I also got bored. I just did an album with 15 songs that were completely revolving around my voice. Everything was there to serve it and not get in the way of it, so I wanted the rhythm section to be pounding on this record.
I was going to say that your voice sounds buried on this album, but you also sing differently too. You’re in your higher register a lot which gives off this aggressive, angry tone to your voice. You don’t do those classic Gnecco screams like we just heard you sing in “Murder.” There’s still falsetto but it’s a lot less. So was that a conscious decision to sing that way too?
Yeah, I think it’s important to not become a parody of yourself. I don’t want to do a scream just to do it. I don’t want to sing falsetto unless the song calls for it. It was a conscious decision to lean toward more songs where I wasn’t singing falsetto for this record. Like you said, a lot of the songs are in a higher register in my voice. It’s actually a difficult album to sing.
On top of that, I got extremely sick during my small window. I had about two and a half weeks to get my vocals done because we had set the May 7 deadline and we were not going to go back on it. During that time, I unfortunately got sick and lost my voice. I was just struggling to have it at all, so that’s me pushing through it. I knew the sound of my voice would be different than ever before, so in that sense I tried to use it to my advantage. There are times when I just don’t have any control of it like I normally would. I took advantage of that because I think sometimes controlling the voice too much can take away some of the reckless abandonment. I tried to support it properly as a singer as much as I could, but still allow it to go where it wanted due to me being sick. I could barely breathe for most of the process. It just felt like somebody was standing on my chest the whole time that I was singing. You then get stressed out about being sick and it’s a constant cycle. It’s a miracle that we even got it done.
I shouldn’t even have to say this because this should just be a given with all records that are made, but I didn’t tune a single vocal. That’s not part of our set up. I wouldn’t know how and I’m not interested in doing it. So it wasn’t a matter of putting my voice down and tuning it all up. I hear tuned vocals on rock records and it does not please me at all. It’s depressing and disappointing to me, so we tried to leave it real.
You mentioned earlier about the guitars. I noticed that Static’s spacey sounding guitar comes in and out. You really have to listen for it on this album. Tell me why you chose to go that way? I’m assuming it’s because it’s so present on Mercy that maybe you wanted to draw it back a little.
We had a clear conversation about our intent on Mercy. I told Static that if he found himself playing anywhere below this part of the guitar to stop and understand that he’s in the wrong place because I’m going to occupy that part of it. So that we weren’t both repeating what the other one was playing and just doubling it. I wanted to make sure we had all this counter melody and these harmonies happening on Mercy.
I wanted to take my guitar out of the equation a little bit on this record. It’s funny, I took it out but in other ways, it’s more important and present than it’s ever been. Part of excluding my guitar meant that I would then play the drums. Normally my guitar establishes the feel of the song. I’ll lay it down and we’ll begin recording. This time, because I tried to eliminate it, something had to set that feel, so that went to the drums. Static then had to occupy more of that lower space because my guitar wasn’t there, and I’m not going to then play space guitar above him. I can, but it would defeat the purpose of trying to get the guitar out of my hands. Not for any other reason than that I like just singing. I love playing on the recordings. It’s natural for me just like breathing, but when it comes to live, I don’t like to be stuck behind a guitar the whole time. So Static had to take on roles that I normally would do. Producing the record, I purposely did not go there with it. There are a few of those parts on songs like “Fall into My Hands,” “Boxer,” and “Devil”. We wouldn’t have “Coming for You” as a tune if it was just about doing the same sound that we did on Mercy, though. It just comes down to trying to not repeat yourself again. There’ll be plenty more of that when we get into songs like “Autumn” and some other ones. They’re all about ambient looping.
The initial inspiration came from this place by us in New Jersey called The Great Notch Inn. I’ve never been there but I always drive past it. There are always motorcycles outside of it, so you’d think it’s kind of a biker bar. I joked about it when we started this record. I said, “I don’t want to fuck around with this album. I don’t want it to be too cerebral for people. I want to be a rock band again like when we were younger. I want to be able to walk into The Great Notch, lay it down, and have people say, ‘Fuck. These guys are killing it.’” So with that idea, things changed.
I think this was a risky record because it’s not a traditional OURS sounding album. It’s a left turn from where you were withMercy and you used fan money to make it. So were you afraid of how people might react to it? Because there have been mixed reactions.
No, not at all. If we were going to worry about what fans would think then why not go back, take money from a record company, and worry about what they’re going to think? Not to be arrogant about it, but we never said we were going to make an album for you that you were going to love. We can’t sit around trying to figure out what moods people are in because everybody’s moods change. These same people that are saying stuff about it, three months from now this will be their favourite record. I think, truthfully, most people don’t know what they want. They have no idea and we’re here to let them know.
You might hate me using this word but I think it’s your most “mainstream” sounding album yet. When I hear “Coming for You” I think, “This is what’s missing from rock radio right now.” Was this done on purpose or just –
Just following inspiration. We toured a couple of months playing arenas throughout Europe for my solo album. It was exciting for us. Our last show was sold-out Wembley Stadium. The crowd didn’t even know our songs but we won them over. They were cheering for us at the top of their lungs and that feeling inspired a lot of these tunes as well. We’re working off of inspiration, not fear, not the anxiety of wondering or worrying what anybody wants from us. Inspiration – that’s how we work, that’s how we will always work.
Everybody has something to say. After all these years, the Velvet Revolver thing kept coming up, so I entertained it. I think we spoke about it. You were like, “Well, what would you say to fans that say you’re selling out?” Well, how about I’d say suck it? Come pay my rent, motherfuckers. Shut your fucking mouth is seriously what I would say. Mind your own business. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. It’s not my responsibility to make the kind of music that people want to hear specifically from me. Steven Tyler might make the same music for all these years. Record after record he can be yaka-daking his way through it. That’s not what we do. I’m not going to get up and be like [sarcastically], “Okay, here’s where you scream, Jimmy. Go put some classic Jimmy on this.” It’s just not that way, so suck it. Just suck it.
[Laughs] Were these some of the songs you wrote for Slash?
A couple of them were tunes that I had in mind that we could have worked on with Velvet Revolver.
“Emergency” was one. “Coming for You” was another that we had in mind. They were just songs that I was already writing that I thought could work, along with a few others that we didn’t put on the record.
It’s so funny. Let me just say this one point and anybody who wants to look into it, just think about it. We released Precious and everybody was like, “Ahhh, it’s not as good as Distorted Lullabies. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” Most people’s favourite song is “Red Colored Stars” and it’s on Precious, so shut the fuck up and listen. Before you say anything, just listen. Everybody wants to say something. Everybody wants to hide behind their computers and say some shit. If you don’t like it –
[Laughs] There are a lot of people who love it, too. You’re getting angry.
Because to even assume that if because they gave us ten dollars towards this record that we’re supposed to go out and read their fucking mind? We’re supposed to think about what album they want from us? That’s impossible. What mood are they in that day? Are they listening to Queensrÿche or are they listening to fucking Abba? Because I don’t know what mood we’re in because we are listening to everything from Marvin Gaye, to Queensrÿche, to Abba, to Rihanna. I’m not going to sit there and figure out what’s in everybody’s minds. I don’t even know what’s in our minds. We have to figure it out and wherever inspiration takes us is where we go. If I can say no to hundreds of thousands of dollars from a record label and say, “I’m going to make the music that I want to make,” I’m not going to worry about ten or twenty dollars.
We are incredibly grateful that people helped us out and that they believed in us enough to spend money before they heard anything. Do this, though: sit back, go on the ride without expectations, and enjoy the record. It’s still only ten dollars if you bought it. You spent more than that on fucking sugar today. Sit back, go on the ride, and we’ll let you know where you want to go.
You released two different versions of “Devil.” There’s the first version that you released as a free download once you pledged. The second version that’s on the album is missing that vocal layering verse near the end of the song. Why did you take it out?
We took it out because it was too many parts in that particular arrangement. When you listened to the song, by the time you got to the final part, “It’s getting complicated,” it was already too complicated to even understand that I was singing those words. We just needed to simplify it.
We have other mixes of the song, though. You have to understand that not being on a label allows us to continue to do anything that we get inspired to do. Tomorrow we can release another version of “Devil” and say, “Here, take this for free.” We can release three more versions and be like, “Here, everybody who pledged, thank you. We love you. Here are three more versions.” People just need to chill out and go on the ride.
Can you tell me about “Pretty Pain”? It’s the first song and it just wakes you up. It makes you think, “This is going to be different than any other album,” so tell me about this tune.
Around 2009, April showed me this creepy piano part that I started playing along with her. I played the simpler part which is now the song. We took her part out but she inspired me to write the whole tune. We had this almost chant-like kind of intro to it. It was hypnotic almost in the sense of something like “Murder.” Not to repeat ourselves again, I started humming this guitar riff to Static. He came up with the tail end of it. We decided that was it and quickly put it together. It’s like a gun slinging guitar riff in the beginning of the record which we love. It’s got an almost delta blues kind of twang to it. It’s exciting for us.
Tell me about “Boxer” and the inspiration for it because it’s included in the title of the album.
When I was writing the songs, I thought, “What does the record need right now? It needs some hope.” The album needs that one song that sums up what’s happening. A tune that makes it clear like “Sometimes” is that on Distorted Lullabies. If you picked one song to describe the whole album, it would be “Sometimes.” We needed that tune and I just wrote “Boxer.”
What was the inspiration behind it?
[Long pause] Everything.
Don’t want to get into it?
No, I can get into it but it was just inspired by everything. Purge your belongings. Not to be a slave to material objects and things. That desire for greed and lust. It’s actually why I excluded that verse in “Devil” because it came out in “Boxer” when I sang, “We had fire in our eyes that turned our love to greed.” I just didn’t want to repeat myself, so we took it out of “Devil.” We then moved on to “Boxer” where that continued to tell the story of what happens when people lose the plot and get caught up in greed. It’s something that I felt like we were struggling through with people in the music business. It’s me just saying that I’ll fucking give up all this stuff, money, all of it, and then finally I will be alive. That’s the idea of the song. Fighting for that freedom to be what it is that I want to be without worrying about what anybody else thinks. Now that might sound like an old concept for me. I have been saying that through other records. Trying to give people the strength to not be afraid of who they are and to just be themselves. I unfortunately found myself in a rut, though. It’s the story of fighting my way out of it. When all those things were gone, I would feel alive again and have some hope.
Did you write “Sing” about Michael Jackson?
Yeah, I started to write “Sing” in the summer of 2008. I was talking to Tiesto. He loved “The Worst Things Beautiful” and wanted me to write some songs for his record that was due out soon after. He loved that tune and wanted something like it. I spent all this time writing a ton of songs trying to get him to like any of them.
That’s so funny you mentioned that because I just said to someone tonight that “Sing” reminds me of “The Worst Things Beautiful.”
Yeah, see, that just shows you why you have to move on from your last creation. Otherwise, you’ll make the same record all over again. You must destroy your last creation. Break it down and do something new. That’s the whole point and process of making a new album.
So “Sing” came out of the songs with Tiesto?
Yeah, it was part of two songs I wrote for Tiesto. We started to play it in late 2008/2009 when we were touring with Blue October. The lyrics were completed after Michael Jackson died, though. He helped me to finish my thought on it.
From what you’ve said, I now think “Fall into My Hands” is foreshadowing what’s to come. It has the distinct OURS sound to it. Tell me about this song. Why did you put it last if it was even a conscious decision?
It’s just where it wanted to go as part of the story, where it felt like it belonged. That song is as much of whom we are that we can ever put out if that makes any sense. If somebody likes “Red Colored Stars” then there’s a good chance that they’ll like “Fall into My Hands” too. They might not like “Emergency” or “Coming for You,” but a lot of other people like those songs, and, most importantly, we like them.
What was the inspiration behind it?
It’s telling a story. It’s either a beautiful, positive one or the exact opposite. If you’re losing your fight, losing your struggle, and you’re terrified, then don’t be afraid to fall back into my hands because I’ll be here for you. Or, is it about when you give up hope, you become destructive, and you’re losing your battle, and at that point you fall into somebody else’s hands?
I never looked at it that way. I always thought of it the first way.
There’s a lot to be looked at about songs I don’t talk about because I like to give people the option of looking into the meaning of them in various ways, but that is what that tune is about.
What’s your favourite song on the album and why?
It’s hard to say when you want different songs for different reasons. When I want to feel the way I get when I listen to What’s Going On by Marvin Gaye which is my favourite record of all time or just a soulful song, I’ll put on “Been Down” and kind of groove to that for a bit.
See, there are different sides to what we do. Here’s the whole thing. You have a song like “Bleed” which is almost a vulnerable plea, almost melancholy, but still somehow manages to lift people’s spirits. There’s that side of what we do. It exists in songs like “Bleed,” “Ran Away to Tell the World,” “Meet Me in the Tower,” and now “Fall into My Hands.” Then you have aggressive songs like “Miseryhead,” “Sometimes,” “Drowning,” “Realize,” and now “Emergency.” It depends what I’m looking for as to which tune would be my favourite at that point. “Pretty Pain” is enjoyable.
What did you ultimately want to accomplish with this album?
[Long pause] I just wanted to record some more songs that I was writing.
And do it your way.
Well, we’re going to do everything our way from here on out. I think that’s the only way that you can accomplish anything great. For too long we’ve been forced to pull our punches and hedge our bets. I don’t think that helps at all. So this is just the beginning of us being bold and not apologizing about it. If I sound like a firecracker right now, sorry, but I’m not [laughs]. I’m sorry that I’m not sorry. I’m tired of having to hear what everybody else thinks or wants. Go start your own band and make your own records then.
Is there anything else you want to say?
Originally posted on Music Vice.
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